This reminds me of when certain men go into the lesbian bar near me just to gawk or laugh.

On the one hand, I guess the owners should be happy for the patronage and accept the $ and all, but then on the other hand, if its making everyone else irritated or uncomfortable maybe its not worth it.

Especially when the guys get really drunk and rude

This kind of tourism is just obnoxious. I suppose some people have never seen homosexuals that weren't in the closet though. As long as it stays positive I guess it is fine. I was born and raised in Hollywood so grew up with tourists everywhere even though there hardly ever any celebrities walking around the streets. People sometimes took pics of me out of curiosity and it was weird, but a big part of formative years I suppose.

Don't the gay residents of SF dress up in gawdy clothes to get noticed? I don't understand why they would complaign about getting what they want...

unDave - they dress in a way that they like - their own personal style - not to get noticed by passerbys but to get noticed by other people. have you ever gone to a bar dressed 'to the nines' in the hopes that you can meet someone? that's all that they are doing - and it's really upsetting that they are now becoming an attraction. it's like putting someone in a cage in a zoo when then don't deserve it.

i can understand why some people would be 'fascinated' with the gay community - if they've never seen something like that before - and i think that it gives the opportunity to educate people on how regardless of your orientation, we are all the same. it's when people are mocking others or when they are malicious about it that really upsets me. i hope that this is just a phase and that it passes - so that people don't feel like they are being taken advantage of and that businesses and people don't lose out on just being 'normal' and living their lives.

Where the heck are these tourists from??
I am surprised that SF residents have not identified these tour bus companies and run them out of town.

I don't think every gay person in SF (can't say for sure since I've never been) dresses up every day to "get noticed", much like you don't see the gay people who live in here in Chicago dress up in leather all the time to get noticed. (Not unless, of course, it's the weekend before Memorial Day and you just *happen* to stumble upon the excitement that is the IML--International Man of Leather--contest! Seriously, a lot of fun). Although yes, people can dress to get attention, and they relish it. I know I'm biased because I have gay friends and live in a really gay-friendly city (IMO), but I just think it's kind of funny that people consider the gay district a tourist attraction. Wouldn't people rather see, I don't know, exotic animals or something?

I also think that whole "dressing to get noticed" idea is pretty tricky because it can descend into that whole victim-blaming thing that goes along with a lot of female-centered crimes (e.g., if she wasn't wearing a low-cut dress to a bar, then she wouldn't have garnered any attention and she wouldn't have been raped, etc.). Off-topic, sorry, but that makes me think of those types of situations. The "gawking" should stay as polite and respectful as humanly possible, even if the gay district does rely on a lot of tourism. It's no different from other areas relying on tourism--would you expect a tourist in a different country to jeer at someone wearing traditional clothing or eating something different?

this is really too bad... a neighborhood that became famous for accepting people for who they are and allowing couples who were shunned from other places around the world to live their lives openly and without fear of being harassed or even assaulted... now it's turning into a freak show? they better crack down on this quick before it gets out of hand. i've heard of straight guys using gay bars as a part of their bachelor party agendas... which is incredibly insensitive and rude... let's turn the tables for a moment... what if there were tour busses going through predominantly latino or black neighborhoods for white tourists from homogenous cities to gawk at?? this is so wrong. ugh. i'm disgusted.

I wonder if this is really as much gawking at gay couples or if it's more looking at a different cultural district. Dupont Circle in DC used to be a not-so-great neighborhood and it became known as a "gay area" and lots of interesting little shops and restaurants started cropping up there, which brought in a lot of tourists. So, after a lot of gay couples began to move there, it started to become a much better neighborhood. So yes, these tourists were seeking out the "gay neighborhood," but no, they weren't there to "gawk" at gay couples.

whoa... missed this the first time around. undave have you ever met a gay person before? maybe you have and you didn't know because 99.9% of the time they don't look or dress any differently than you do. surprise!!!

i've spent a lot of time in the castro and it's one of the last great neighborhoods in SF that's still loaded with really vibrant, locally owned and community oriented businesses. i hate to see it become commercialized for all the wrong reasons like this.

If anyone wants to take a picture of a gay couple, then I think that falls under the category of gawking, IMO.

kimbo - i'm sure that plays some role in this trend... but tour busses dropping people off to take pictures and point sounds a little rude to me. i want to believe that it's only as bad as you're describing, but i know people can be cruel and insensitive so i guess my mind is wandering toward the worst case scenario here.

Yy, I would guess it's somewhere in between what we are envisioning. I'm sure some of these tourists are gawking at the gay couples and I'm guessing others are there to see the interesting little shops and restaurants.

And em, I'm just questioning if all, or even the majority of, these tourists are really taking pictures just of the gay couples. It's one thing to go in to a neighborhood and take a picture of the atmosphere as a whole, even if that picture includes a gay couple in it. It's another to specifically take a picture of a gay couple. Some people could think that the tourists are specifically taking pictures of them when in fact they are just taking pictures of the neighborhood.

In fact, the article makes it seem like a lot of the people who come in to the neighborhood to take pictures of the flags are actually gay people themselves.

The folks who live in the Castro should get out their cameras and start taking pictures of these tourists.

yesteryear, I have to respectfully disagree with you. The gay men in my neighborhood are in way better shape and much better looking than the straight ones. I only wish that they didn't look much different than them...

Anyway, can a city really decide that they don't want tourism and just make it go away? Honestly, I don't see how that is possible. It's a free world and people can visit wherever they feel like right?

Interestingly, I see people in DC who obviously live here taking pictures of tourists all of the time.

It sounds like from the article, all they need to do is enforce the existing parking laws to prevent tour buses from dropping people off at 18th and Market. It's just the volume of people. I'd be weirded out if a tour buss dropped off 50 people on my corner, too.

Good points, lilkimbo. I think I, too, like yesteryear, always go for the worst case scenario. I also think I'm oversensitive to stuff like this--I just went to the gay pride parade a few months ago and, while there, heard some language I didn't want to hear (which, really, seriously? People have nothing better to do than make fun of people on floats?). So that's where my mind always goes.

I definitely see what you and yy are saying, em. I mean, have these people honestly never seen a gay couple before? I just really do feel like some of the tourists are gawkers and some are not.

And I don't get people who go to gay pride parades and things like that and then are berating to the participants. If it's not your cup of tea, don't go. It's really not that difficult.

In some ways it might be a good thing. Here in LA, West Hollywood is one of the safest, most beautiful, well kept areas of the city. I think it reflects very well on the people of the community. If it becomes dangerous or problematic in some other way, I could see taking action.

I agree Torg, it sounds like the tour bus aspect is the biggest problem.

Em, that is so sad to hear about the people watching the parade!

when I was in the castro neighborhood, I was too focused on the most delicious cup of coffee I've ever had that I don't think I noticed any gay couples!

If the tourists are actually spending money at the shops, then I guess it's not all bad. But if buses are just driving through and snapping pictures, is that positive? I mean, hopefully they are taking pictures of the neighborhood , but how can you not feel awkward with a bunch of overweight, fanny-pack wearing tourists come to gawk at your neighborhood. Although, maybe it shows a shift in acceptance--my intolerant parents wouldn't be caught dead on a tour bus that stopped at a gay neighborhood (my goodness, it was bad enough driving through the Logan/Dupont gayborhood to the P St Whole Foods with my dad when he came to visit me--I was hoping he wouldn't purposefully run over any "sinners."

haha, popsgotheworld--if ONLY the majority of straight men did look like their fit & groomed gay counterparts!

lol javsmavs. You can't walk or drive through logan/dupont without seeing gay couples! I honestly don't even register it.

Well, except one time when two guys were holding hands walking and one of them was wearing a t-shirt that said "I like dick."

I actually did a double take.

And if anyone wanted to take a picture of that, I honestly wouldn't blame them. If you pull something like that you're basically asking for attention.

The actual point-and-gawkers sound really rude and obnoxious, but I agree with others who've pointed out that maybe most tourists are just intrigued by the neighborhood, not necessarily there on a "let's take pictures of gay people, like animals at a zoo!" tour. It doesn't seem like too bad of a problem to have, the increased tourism.

LMAO! "tour buses, which drop off thousands of nervous visitors ready to snap photos of two men holding hands or point and stare in shock."

Well first of all this is no different than any one of us going to a foreign land where a culture is quite foreign to us where we would do the same thing. Point uhoo & ahhh and take photos. This is what tourists do.

On the other hand I can understand the frustration of some when the act turns from tourism to ignorance. Two weeks ago I saw a group of young Russian men and they were having a good old time mocking homosexual’s right in the middle of The Castro. I'm surprised they got out alive. You don't want to mess with a Castro gym bunny.

I wonder what kinds of souvenirs the tourists would buy?

Having grown up in the Bay Area, and visited SF too many times to count, I don't see the big deal.

You shouldn't look at gay people.

I think the gays should start charging. He]], I had to tip a guy just for hiding behind a bush and trying to scare me. They could go out together make the rounds and charge 5 bucks a snap or confiscate their film.

yesteryear wrote:

"i've heard of straight guys using gay bars as a part of their bachelor party agendas... which is incredibly insensitive and rude."

That is so odd. Why do you think they would do that? I don't understand. (It doesn't make any sense to me.)

a nonny mouse - two words - free drinks.

Speaking of straight men I've noticed an increasing trend of straight men that go to gay clubs to meet straight women. Makes sense the odds are certainly in their favor.

hypnotic ~ I'm sure the straight women are there because they like looking at some pretty hot bodies without having to worry about being hit on, so I'm not sure how good their odds are. It must be frustrating for some gay men however.

I am a straight woman that LOVES going to gay bars! It is so nice to dance like there is no tomorrow with out worring that some guy is going to come up and start grinding on your bootay. It is more about fun than the hookup!

"It is so nice to dance like there is no tomorrow with out worring that some guy is going to come up and start grinding on your bootay."

Exactly!

I don't know how well the "go to gay bars to meet straight women" tactic would really work, because I go to gay bars to have fun WITHOUT being hit on. It's annoying when it does happen at a gay bar.

But do you get hit on by women?

All the gay bars we go to have a lot more men than women, although Brandon's convinced he sees chicks checking me out--but I usually go with him, so it's fairly obvious I'm both taken and straight.

*If it did happen, though, I wouldn't find that annoying. It would make sense, since it's a gay bar. I just don't like being approached by straight men in gay bars...it seems vaguely inappropriate.

UD I would like you to meet the two most important men in my life. (Besides my family of course) One is my gay best friend and one is my on again...off again...well you know. Anyway, can you really tell which one is gay and which one is the love of my life? Gay men and women are just like you and me. They strive for success, love, and acceptance. I'm not trying to be condescending right now. I just really like you and it makes me sad that you have these misconceptions.

Well I guess I've been hit on by women in straight bars ~ so if nothing else its flattering. It would be nice to go out with one's friends and not have to worry about being approached by anyone. I guess I'll have to try it sometime; although, the last gay bar I knew of was destroyed by a tornado awhile back. I'm sure they have multipled exponentially in the interim.

Wow HF you keep great company! Some of the happiest guys I know are gay and they are about FUN, FUN, FUN!!!

LOL. Yeah they're pretty gorgeous. This is me rolling out of bed looking a hot mess...but I was trying to make a point so I guess it's worth it.

I know Jillnes I can't stand it when people grind all up on me. I didn't pay a cover charge to come dry hump some fool on the dance floor. I need to spread my wings honey.