I am reading the "God Delusion" right now (not saying I agree with it or the title...just started reading it), but the first chapter is devoted mainly to Enstein. I think when he would say "God" he was talking about the miracle of nature.

Well there are a couple ways to slice this. First do you believe in God or not? Secondly if you do believe in God do you believe in religion or not? You don't have to be religious to believe in God in fact more and more evidence is being revealed that God if one exists would not be too thrilled with religion.

I tried to click on "the letter", but for some reason nothing is coming up. I was wondering if it had a date or something to show when he wrote it. I know many people, myself included, change their religious perspectives.

It's funny you say that Jill because a lot of my friends happen to be Pagen. I think often it isn't that some are thinking there is no God but that he isn't what Christians would descirbe him as. Often exactly what you just said is the idea, that he/she is more apart of all things nature.

I agree with that completely Hypno.

It seems people say, ok yeah I say it too. That I am "spirtual".

I agree with most of what you say Hypno, except for the comment,

"in fact more and more evidence is being revealed that God if one exists would not be too thrilled with religion."

How do we know this?

Einstein also said:
"I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws."

I think articles pitching the letter as proof Einstein was an atheist totally miss his likely point, that whatever intelligence controls the universe is beyond our comprehension thus far. Just makes me like him more.

Also, I don't care at all what Einstein has to say about God, religion or faith.

I couldn't click the letter either - went to yahoo news and searched Einstein and God.

Nice quote steph.

Belief in God is more than a crutch for the unlearned (or childish superstition). It's different for every person, but very similar for everyone. I can understand Einstein's beliefs, given what he went through in the 20's and 30's in Germany.

Letter link all fixed.

We wont' know for sure until hark the herald Angel sings cine. But if you step back from the bubble and look at all religions their just clubs with leaders, their own set of rules, perspectives on God etc. For the most part we are allowed to choose which one we want to belong to or not and in some cases we're made to join. The bottom line is they all worship God, but do we need to join a club to worship God?

With all due respect to Dr. Einstein I do believe in a creator because I have felt that place inside of me that says I am more than just an elemental cocktail. God is in each and every one of us and God does not need a religion to speak to us.

I absolutely believe in a God and creator, and in the inherent value of living up to the gift of life that one's been given by being a good, generous, and ethical person who brings benefit to the world rather than harm. About organized religions, however...no thanks.

Well, with all do respect hypno, that is all opinion, not fact, so you can't really call it evidence. I don't see my religion or anyone else's, as a club, but a community. And the community helps people walk in the path of their faith. Religion is not for everyone, but to say it is nothing more then a club, I feel you are discrediting it.

"I think often it isn't that some are thinking there is no God but that he isn't what Christians would descirbe him as."

I think there are a lot of people that fall into this way of thinking. You phrased it very nicely!

I believe in God because I find it hard to believe with so much complexity of us, our bodies, the earth, the trees etc. It doesn't make sense to have not been created by a higher power.

This happens to be one of my favorite things to discuss and I have to cook. I hope I can be here! Ican't even read everyones stuff right now. Dang it!

You should check out the theological discussions on PBS, History and Discovery Channel cine. They're very enlightening.

haven't seen them on PBS, but I am a History and Discovery channel junky. The fact is, like you said, until we die, no one will know who is right and who is wrong, so until then, we all have to go with what our heart and faith tell us. To me the Bible is evidence that contradicts yours, so it is all opinion.

I agree harts, there is too much unexplained in this world for me not to believe in a higher power.

It is known that Einstein as well as others adhered to the teachins of Kabbalah. Which explains the meanings of the universe and what we call "God" through science and logic.

Excuse my typos. I was trying to type before my boss got to my desk! LOL!

If you're happy with your chosen faith cine and your chosen faith is good to you and your's nothing wrong with that.

My personal criticism of religion in general not one in particular is that God does not need a middle man. Especially a bunch of middle men who have a history of infighting war and convincement us to demonize our brothers and sisters. History has proven that religions are more worried about protecting themselves than protecting the word of God. That should not sit well with any of us.

*insighting

Sexy, don't bosses just make you nuts?!? I could sound a lot smarter if he'd just leave me alone to compose my comments.

See now you are making sense, and I actually agree with you. The only difference is that I don't see it as the religion, I see it as some chosen few within the religions that do such things. Religion does not cause war, humans cause war.

I like that Einstein quote Stephley, never heard it, thanks for sharing.

I used to be very involved in my church, but it just never felt like I fit in. It was more out of obligation and what everyone else expected of me, it never felt right for me so I faked it alot. Which of course is the wrong way to go about it. I still believe in God, I still have faith, I just don't follow any particular or organized religion anymore. However, I think churches and organized religions are great for many people, I just don't think they're right or best for everyone. And each person has to be able to answer that for themselves.

Finally someone feels my pain Stephley!!

I think the Einstein letter sheds a lot of light on his beliefs, but that's about it. Belief or disbelief is such a personal thing. If Einstein was an atheist — or if he weren't — it doesn't change the fact that the man was a genius.

Good point Bella!

Thanks Jillness!

My personal criticism of religion in general not one in particular is that God does not need a middle man. Especially a bunch of middle men who have a history of infighting war and convincement us to demonize our brothers and sisters. History has proven that religions are more worried about protecting themselves than protecting the word of God. That should not sit well with any of us

I agree that men corrupt religion. I don't think that because men corrupt a religion, that means that all, or any religions are bad. It's just like governments. When one person is the ruler, that person eventually becomes drunk with power. My biggest argument with the Catholic Church is that they are essentially governed by one person, and he isn't always thinking about what is best for his people.

I love to just study other religions. You know one thing they all have in common is that there are things that are good and we should do them and there are others that are not we should steer clear of them.

Aside from the extreme thinking which isn't really what is apart of the faith anyway.

I hope I made sense.

On a similar note, I heard (somewhere, so take this with a grain of salt) a speaker describe the skism between science and religion like this.

God has a blueprint for the universe. He uses science to achieve his results. Just because we now understand (some of) the science behind his blueprint, that doesn't mean we are ready to build the rest ourselves...

The Kabbala is actually jewish. It used to be only allowed for men (Rabis)to read. ONly resently have women been able to read it.

I think science is apart of Gods creation. I also think that "evolution" is apart of Gods plan. I thik he intended for us to evolve to our surroundings. I don't understand the notion of us coming from apes, because why are there still apes? Why havn't anymore "evolved" into humans?

Sorry for the errors guys! Come back later!

Go red team!!! Had to get that in too!

I would assume one would have to be really immature and uneducated to determine whether or not they believe in a Higher Being based on the thoughts/writings of Einstein.

But that's just me.

I am shocked that he seems to have a very limited view in the Jewish term "chosen people". Jews certainly don't believe that they are "better than other groups". I'm in the process of converting, and that was one of the first things I wanted to learn about when I started the process.

i will have to withdraw myself from this discussion, because i am god. it's just plain unfair for me to muddy the waters. but i will say i'm having a great time reading about what you all think you know about me - carry on!

Everyone has their own God. The mathematician's god are numbers, the poet's god are words and those who worship at the pounding altar of hard fisted metal rock kneel before Pantera! Relinquish your souls before their merciless guitar licks!

I think it's a bit rude to call faith in God "childish superstition", because there are many people who feel that a belief in a higher power makes them better people. I'm aware that it's a popular thing in some circles to think condescendingly about people of faith, but I don't think it's the right thing to do.

I'm agnostic, because I don't think it's possible to know one way or another if there is a God. I don't have any problems with religions (or followers of religions) provided they respect the rights of other human beings. Religion does a lot of good, which should be respected. But hurting other people in the name of your God? Unacceptable.

I definitely believe in God. And Einstein's (or anyone else's) views on God and/or religion is not going to change what I believe in any way. The way I decide what I believe is by going directly to the source - God ... through prayer. And I consult the Bible (and also those that are in clergy that I strongly trust)

However, I have had a hard time with the whole 'religion' thing. My family and I have had some stuff happen to us through the church that we attended that didn't exactly put 'religion' in a great light. That is in the past now so I won't go into it here. (If anyone wants the story feel free to PM me). But even with all that happened I still strongly believe in God (and kept that belief through the hard times). Just b/c a church/religion hurts me doesn't mean that GOD hurt me (or anyone else). I do know that having a churc/religion hurt you can make a dent in your faith... happened to my Dad, to my SO, and to his best friend.
I now attend a non-denominational church and am very happy with it.

But isn't it really a childish superstition? I mean there's a big omniscient being who can see and control everything, but sometimes it interferes and sometimes it doesn't and we can never, ever know its reasons. And for each epoch in science, when we discover some cure or planet or natural phenomena, our concept of God must give way to reason and reinvent itself, or worse, kill those with the truth in an effort to deny a new scientific fact. It is in this continual reinvention (the world is flat, heliocentrism, et al) that reveals the flaw in God's existence. The more we discover our natural universe, the less we need to rely on a being that preys on our fear and ignorance for its ceaseless nourishment.

Then again, it is nice to believe in something greater than ourselves and I still pray sometimes. Is that need inherent? Like speech or sex? Is belief genetic? Are you there God? It's me, Margaret.

I think to an extent it might be one of those social things where we have to tolerate each other to get along. If everyone of differing or no religions thought it was just fine to harshly criticize everyone who didn't believe exactly what they believed, things would get ugly. And I know there already are people like this, but I like to think they're the exception.

Personally, I feel no need to believe in God. I think the universe is magnificent, whether it was created or not. I'm still a nice person. I don't have horns.

But simply because I don't believe, doesn't make it right for me to ridicule those that do, any more than I would ridicule someone who was committed to living a life with zero ecological impact (including not using toilets). It's not something I think I would choose, but if it's their choice, makes them happy, and doesn't negatively impact me- what's to criticize? It's their life, and their choice to make.